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Post by brobear on May 15, 2021 8:40:18 GMT -5
Posted by TheUndertaker45 at: domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/683/leopard-jaguar-bear?page=2&scrollTo=26616 There is one account of El Jefé (an infamous Central American Jaguar) preying upon a young adult American black bear sow. It is available here: www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180960443/ However, before you read it there is one thing you have to take into account: A so called "bear expert" estimates the size of the bear by looking at her skull and puts her at ~230lbs. The incident happened way down in Arizona and as you know by Bergmann's rule: bears are relatively small down there. We unfortunately don't have any weight study on American black bears in Arizona, however, there is one study on Californian black bears (who live in close proximity) and mature females averaged 128lbs, so forget about the 230lbs weight figure, it's BS. Another thing is that El Jefé weighed ~120lbs when he was two years old; it is unknown when the incident of him killing the bear took place, he might have been bigger by then. Nevertheless, it is a valid account of jaguar predation upon an American black bear. *My thoughts, the jaguar was ( probably ) a full grown male. He ambushed this young-adult American black she-bear which weighed less than himself. By just how many pounds, we can't say. But, in each and every confirmed account where we have of a big cat ambushing and killing a bear, the cat outweighs the bear. *Edit and add: it also has little meaning when a male of one species kills a female of another ( spotted hyena exception ); especially when he kills her from ambush.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 1, 2021 10:59:47 GMT -5
Here are some weights of Amur leopards:
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 1, 2021 14:41:37 GMT -5
Reply 230. The American black bear in that picture is probably a cinnamon bear.
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Post by Montezuma on Jun 1, 2021 15:49:28 GMT -5
Who is bigger sloth bear or jaguar? Ii think that the sloth bear is slightly bigger.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 1, 2021 16:25:58 GMT -5
Who is bigger sloth bear or jaguar? Ii think that the sloth bear is slightly bigger. Indian sloth bear is a little larger, it averages 240 lbs. The largest population of jaguars, the Pantanal jaguar averages around 220 lbs.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 16:35:24 GMT -5
Who is bigger sloth bear or jaguar? Ii think that the sloth bear is slightly bigger. Indian sloth bear is a little larger, it averages 240 lbs. The largest population of jaguars, the Pantanal jaguar averages around 220 lbs.Average Pantanal Jaguar is 105 to 115 kilograms or 230 to 255 lbs
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 1, 2021 17:09:31 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 8, 2021 7:09:59 GMT -5
Jaguar dies after fight with cobra in Mysuru Zoo
MYSURU: A jaguar at Mysuru Zoo died of snakebite following a fight with the reptile on Sunday. The cobra died soon after the fight broke out at the free roaming area of the big cat.According to zoo executive director Ajit Kulkarni, who announced the news to the media on Monday, “The jaguar, named Raja and aged 14, had suffered multiple bites on its face and other parts of the body. It was being treated at the hospital within the precincts of the zoo, but the animal did not survive.
“The fight was noticed in the afternoon. The animal handlers had to wait for sometime, before making a bid to rescue the big cat. The visitors at the menagerie also witnessed the fight. While the reptile died on the spot, the big cat was rushed to the hospital.” The official also clarified that the snake may have slithered into the zoo from outside.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/2018/oct/30/jaguar-dies-after-fight-with-cobra-in-mysuru-zoo-1891759.amp
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Post by tom on Jun 8, 2021 10:05:10 GMT -5
Interesting. I wonder if this Jaguar was raised in captivity. I would think most wild big Cats or cats there were born in the wild have learned (likely from their mothers) that snakes are dangerous. This Jaguar being in captivity and possibly raised in captivity likely has never seen a snake before? dunno. Very unfortunate though to lose such a beautiful animal.
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Post by brobear on Jun 8, 2021 10:16:43 GMT -5
Interesting. I wonder if this Jaguar was raised in captivity. I would think most wild big Cats or cats there were born in the wild have learned (likely from their mothers) that snakes are dangerous. This Jaguar being in captivity and possibly raised in captivity likely has never seen a snake before? dunno. Very unfortunate though to lose such a beautiful animal. I have a friend who used to live in Florida. Donna; a real "cat person" who had lots of cats - inside cats and outside cats. One day, she found one of her Toms dead in her back yard. He had a coral snake that evidently he had been playing with before killing it.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 8, 2021 15:25:58 GMT -5
Coral snakes are highly venomous and brightly coloured snakes.
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Post by brobear on Sept 4, 2021 6:08:47 GMT -5
In a face-off between a male jaguar and a female sloth bear, I don't think that the bear will kill the jaguar ( in most cases ) but the she-bear will be able to fend off the jaguar and do enough damage to teach him "the error of his ways." ( Jaguar might kill the sloth bear -IMO- perhaps 1 or 2 out of 10 face-off fights. )
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 22, 2021 5:00:26 GMT -5
Even a sloth bear is heavier than the largest jaguar on average.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2021 4:12:39 GMT -5
Leopards are no pushovers, especially the bigger and dominant subspecies such as Persian leopards who are sympatric with Syrian brown bears. Here's a size comparison between a male leopard and a Syrian brown bear: A Syrian brown bear with cub tried to chase off a leopard from its kill which resulted in the death of the cub:
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Post by brobear on Oct 2, 2021 4:18:02 GMT -5
Interesting find shortridge. It is rare to find evidence of a brown she-bear as a kleptoparasite.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2021 4:33:12 GMT -5
Interesting find shortridge. It is rare to find evidence of a brown she-bear as a kleptoparasite. Well, it was a cub and there is a reason why not all cubs survive to adulthood. Children shoudn´t try to do certain things which demand adults. No matter if talking about us humans or animals. Edit and add: Or was that so, that female bear tried to do that and leopard grabbed the cub then. Pity that no more information how situation has developed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2021 4:54:24 GMT -5
Here are two cases of a Persian leopard possibly looking to eliminate a future threat:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2021 4:55:17 GMT -5
brobear When talking about it, that female bears displace predators from carcasses, it happens. You know for sure that study from Yellowstone, where was studied how wolves and female bears compete for food/carcasses. When only a few wolves, mother bear has good chance, when there are several wolves, it´s more favorable for wolves. In this case one cub might have been sloppy and too far away from mother making it vulnerable to leopard. Key element after all is to stay close to mother so that it can defend cubs efficiently. I assume, that normally leopard flees, because it doesn´t want to try luck with adult female bear, but then again if opportunity is good, a cub may pay heavy price. If mother has more than one cub, it has difficult job if one gets separated and it can choose to protect smart ones and let one die. All credit to leopard, but I don´t see it as a match for female bear.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2021 5:07:41 GMT -5
I'm not a bear expert at all, but isn't the Syrian brown bear a rather small subspecies like the Cantabrian brown bear for example? I would like to know how much a sow weighs on average. If the Persian leopard was a male (quite possible as males are more likely to stand their ground + the leopard killed livestock) then it would be large enough to at least chase off the scavenging the bear. Not saying it would win the fight but based on what we get to see, the leopard managed to kill the cub but may have been chased off the kill OR vice versa.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2021 5:23:37 GMT -5
I'm not a bear expert at all, but isn't the Syrian brown bear a rather small subspecies like the Cantabrian brown bear for example? I would like to know how much a sow weighs on average. If the Persian leopard was a male (quite possible as males are more likely to stand their ground + the leopard killed livestock) then it would be large enough to at least chase off the scavenging the bear. Not saying it would win the fight but based on what we get to see, the leopard managed to kill the cub but may have been chased off the kill OR vice versa. Some female bears are smallish, but they are still robust animals and big in comparison with leopards overall. Leopards aren´t too keen to fight when opponent is similar size or bigger as they are themselves. This can be seen in many clips from Africa where lone hyenas harass leopards. It looks like only some dominant males are willing to fight and even kill hyena time to time. Female brown bear, even when from smaller Syrian subspecies has reasonable size and is very intimidating. Also this case with photos show it, that it was going there to take over the carcass. So even with cubs it was confident enough, that it can handle the situation. Which in this case ended up badly to one cub. Many open questions, did leopard kill that cub and fled after it to wait, that bear goes away etc. Actually odd to see that head part of that cub is missing, if eating, it´s not usually the part to start with. Those two photos create many questions, that what happened there. Could they find anything more from the tracks. Difficult to think, that leopard could kill and eat a cub if mother bear there near. Interesting case, maybe this person who posted those photos would have some additional information. Btw no link to original source, it would be nice to have it too shared when this kind of case. Edit and add: I found something and based on it, there would have been a mother bear with one cub and in the first place leopard would have fled to the tree with carcass of deer. Then female bear would have tried to get the carcass from there leading to fight from which that female would have retreated, but the cub hasn´t done the same for some reason leading to it, that leopard has killed it. Plausible scenario of course. Sometimes things can go wrong and then the weakest link pays the price.
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