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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 25, 2019 9:04:05 GMT -5
If the 150 lb cougar killed the 200 lb subadult grizzly in a strictly face to face fight, yeah, although it would have to be explained to them that the bear was young. it would mean Nothing. And if a 100 pound sun bear kills a 200 pound sub-adult male tiger, it would mean Nothing. |
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Post by tom on Mar 25, 2019 15:30:01 GMT -5
When it comes to weight parity I say 50 50. Im not exactly too sure on the outcome. I like my bears to have a weight advantage. Ok lets look at weight parity. First off the average weight for male adult Cougars is 110 - 180 lbs. A 200 lb Cougar is an exceptional specimen and not all that common, much the same as a 1500 lb Kodiak Bear would be. So with that in mind in order for you to have a lets say 200 lb Grizzly you would no doubt be dealing with a cub or sub adult female, hardly a fighting machine at that age. They would not have the confidence nor the fighting skills (learned) to take on a Cougar in an all out fight IMO. Theoretically, the young Grizzly would have the overall strength to handle himself well, but as I stated, he lacks experience and confidence which is everything in an all out fight. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 25, 2019 16:24:37 GMT -5
You have a point Tom, but lets analyze this video here. Grizzly cub, probably less than 100 lbs, has a face to face fight with a full grown mother puma, probably close to 150 lbs. in the exchange, the bear won, look closely at exactly minute 0:31, the bear knocks the cougar on his ass. Also, the cougar ran away at the end, so in the conclusion the bear cub also won.
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Post by tom on Mar 25, 2019 17:40:13 GMT -5
Ok before we start this lets get some facts straight. An adult female Cougar (if that is what is in the video) is not going to be anywhere near 200 lbs. She likely we be close to 100 lbs give or take.
That's one brave little Bear. I'll give you my opinion on that video. That Cougar could have killed that cub if it really wanted to. End of story.
I would have to guess most Grizzly Cubs that age are going to run for their lives when confronted by an adult Cougar and not stand and fight unless mamma Bear is around. If you remember the scene from the movie "The Bear" we had just that. In that movie the Grizzly cub was terrified and wanted nothing to do with that hungry Cougar and I get it that it was a movie. But that is likely what would happen in real life instances.
That being said....
Bears have personalities just like humans. There might be that odd, bold Cub (think Mapogos Mr. T the Lion) that start out fearless and turn into a dominant Bear when they become adults. But IMO, most at that age would not want to tangle with an adult Cougar.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 25, 2019 17:49:33 GMT -5
Ok Tom, maybe i exagerated the pumas weight, but it looks to me closer to 150 lbs. whatever the case might be, its stil double the size of that cub thought. He won. Of course it wont always turn out that way. It was a real fight though. Yeah, what you mentioned was a movie, totally made up, so we cant go by that.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 25, 2019 17:54:51 GMT -5
Anyways we are talking about cubs now, lmao, its crazy. a puma would defeat a bear cub 9/10 times. As for a subadult black bear of 200 lbs vs an adult male puma of 200 lbs, i believe the black bear wins 6/10 times.
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Post by tom on Mar 25, 2019 18:03:57 GMT -5
I would be more likely to believe you if it was a sub adult Grizzly and not Black Bear. The one question that none of us can answer is... does a sub adult have the will to engage in a fight? possibly to the death? remember these are the teenagers and juveniles if equating to a human.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 25, 2019 18:23:53 GMT -5
I would be more likely to believe you if it was a sub adult Grizzly and not Black Bear. The one question that none of us can answer is... does a sub adult have the will to engage in a fight? possibly to the death? remember these are the teenagers and juveniles if equating to a human. |
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Post by tom on Mar 25, 2019 18:50:40 GMT -5
Here's my last take on this. If we are speaking in hypothetical's than yes is it possible for a 200 lb sub adult bear to win a fight against an adult Cougar. Hypothetically he has the strength and weapons to get the job done. But I was speaking of more a real world encounter and I just don't think most sub adults would have the stomach for it.
Kodiak said:
You could honestly say that about a lot of mammals. Remember being mortally wounded in a fight could prevent you from hunting and ultimately starving to death. I think some dominant individuals act without hesitation, but most have a built in self preservation switch and unless absolutely necessary, sometimes walking away from a fight is the smart thing to do.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 25, 2019 19:13:04 GMT -5
Yeah Tom, most probably a subadult bear and a full grown puma wont even fight unless its a mother puma defending her cubs as the video showed.
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 27, 2019 17:42:13 GMT -5
Cougar vs Grizzly is a total joke. I hope you guys realize this. Only a total cat fanatic would even consider this as being debatable. Cougar vs grizzly is like barnyard sheep vs Great Indian rhinoceros. No contest. No cougar in his right mind would ever ambush a full-grown black bear, much less a grizzly. I agree with you all the way. I couldn't have said it better myself. |
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 27, 2019 17:46:06 GMT -5
I believe when it comes to bear vs big cat debates the big cat will win when it comes to equal weights. But when bears start to have a weight advantage then I start to favor the bear more and more. I like my bears with meat and size to them.
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Post by brobear on Mar 28, 2019 2:13:34 GMT -5
I believe when it comes to bear vs big cat debates the big cat will win when it comes to equal weights. But when bears start to have a weight advantage then I start to favor the bear more and more. I like my bears with meat and size to them. The difference is weight-parity vs size-parity. When speaking of mature males of each species, at equal head-and-body length, the bear will always outweigh the cat. This gives an honest comparison, showing that bears are built thicker and heavier than cats. Even when comparing a grizzly to the most robust cat ever ( Smilodon ) at size-parity, the bear proves the heavier of the two. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 28, 2019 2:58:49 GMT -5
I believe when it comes to bear vs big cat debates the big cat will win when it comes to equal weights. But when bears start to have a weight advantage then I start to favor the bear more and more. I like my bears with meat and size to them.
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Post by brobear on Mar 28, 2019 6:34:52 GMT -5
Its doubtful that the time and trouble was taken for any of these animals to be weighed. History and news reports show us that every bear is a "huge bear" even though it might weigh 200 pounds. "Giant" Siberian tigers also a meaningless description. The biggest cat that any Californian had ever seen ( the few more adventurous ones ) would have been a cougar. So, every tiger was a giant and every bear was huge. To claim these as weight-parity face-offs is pure speculation ( guess-work ). There is also the added question of the condition of these tigers after a sea voyage by sailing ship.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 28, 2019 7:16:13 GMT -5
Yeah could be, but all we can go by are the descriptions. Fact of the matter is they are talking about BLACK bears. Siberian tigers were larger also in that era by about 100 lbs on average. I would guess if there was weight difference, it would have not been by much.
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 28, 2019 12:08:35 GMT -5
What weight is a huge black bear? And what weight is a giant siberian tiger?
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 28, 2019 16:31:01 GMT -5
What weight is a huge black bear? And what weight is a giant siberian tiger? |
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 28, 2019 19:09:03 GMT -5
Ok once again this is weight parity. At weight parity I favor the cat. Dale the tiger killed the 440 pound brown bear at weight parity. At weight parity the bear loses in my opinion at least 60% of the time. Now Prince the 500 pound tiger was killed by a 700 pound she bear if I remember correct. I think this sis the account I found for you some time back. Notice when the weight increase for the bear the bear has a better chance of winning.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 28, 2019 19:20:52 GMT -5
Dale, a 445 lb male tiger, killed a 440 lb female brown bear in a 20 minute fight. This is weight parity yes. The tiger almost lost.
#1: it was a FEMALE brown bear, the fight lasted 20 minutes, and the tiger almost lost.
#2: Dale attacked the bear by ambush, so we dont really know how bad the bear was hurt from the initial ambush.
#3: thats just one single fight, you cant think a tiger will win at weight parity because of one single face to face fight that he won against a female bear.
#4: at same weight, the bear still has much better stamina, better face to face fighting ability, more armour. At weight parity bears win 6/10.
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