Small/medium sized predator videos

[Deleted]

This video has a wolverine, as headline of the video tells: When the Karelian Bear Dog met a wolverine.

This dog sadly has died to cancer now, but nice video.

What happened was, that they were tracking moose when owner heard  odd sounds from the direction where dog had went. He followed noise and found then his dog. It had met a wolverine and chased it causing it to flee by climbing to the tree.

When owner approached the place in order to take his dog away, wolverine got frightened and came down trying to run away, but every time it did it, his dog attacked and after some fight wolverine fled again to the tree. This happened a few times before wolverine gave up and stayed up on the tree.

Owner then put there  cameras to film the tree and then went to take his dog to the leash again and they went away to give time to wolverine to be able to leave the place. Which it did after a few minutes then.

This dog was also after this very interested about wolverines and it met them many times later too. There are a lot of wolverines in that region. These dogs, Karelian Bear Dogs are excellent dogs to have in the woods. Pity that cancer took this one "too early", but it happens.

[Deleted]

I watched another video from this Turunen and there he explained more about wolverines and also about this incident in the video, which I just posted.

Shortly, he calls wolverine as quite harmless and funny little rogue/trickster He also grins a little while saying that for him wolverine (based on many encounters in the forests) gives in a way impression as the most curious and stupid animal there is. When it stumbles across with someone, it first runs away fast. But then after a moment it comes back to look that what it was or was there anything really?

With harmless he means, that it doesn´t give problems to people, domestics animals are left in peace etc. Reindeer owners are then their own chapter.

What comes to dog-wolverine encounters, which happen quite often there, where Turunen lives, usually they are harmless. Wolverines flee usually to the trees, they are slow runners so they can´t outrun dogs. Some problems occur, when they flee to some rocky area and then have to fight. Bites itself aren´t so big deal, wounds aren´t that serious if it manages to bite the dog, but problems occur because of infections, they have so different kind of bacteria in their mouth that it needs to be treated usually with medication.

So while dogs are usually fine after encounter with wolverine, if there are wounds it´s good to be careful and go to meet veterinarian sooner than later if wound starts to look like infected.

Then to what happened in that encounter in the video. 

So he heard loud noise from the direction of his dog and he heard how wolverine hissed and screamed, so he understood right away what is happening. He ran to find his dog and when he saw him, he was barking under the tree and wolverine was there head downwards 30 cm from the snout of his dog. When Turunen approached, wolverine got frightened and jumped to the ground, his dog attacked right away and they fought again for a moment. Then wolverine ran to flee and climbed to the next tree it found. Turunen ran towards them again and same thing again, wolverine came down and dog attacked. After some new tries with similar results Turunen understood, that wolverine was so afraid of him, that if he approaches, it comes down and same thing all over again. So he backed off 100 meters when the wolverine came down once again trying to flee. Then he waited while dog and wolverine went forward approximately 200 meters with terrible noise and fighting. Then he heard, that dog was barking in one place and they had stopped once again. He waited for a few minutes still, before he started to approach again, this time carefully and slowlier.

Then he saw wolverine 4 meters up in the tree and dog barking and guarding it. He didn´t dare to go and put dog in the leash right under the tree, in case that wolverine gets so scared again that drops there and then he would be also in the middle of the fight with a nice chance to get some wounds/scratches. So he started to lure his dog and it took almost half an hour to get the dog calm down so much that it came to him. During this time he took photos and video too, while trying to get his dog to come to him.

Then when he got his dog to leash, they backed off around 80 meters to wait that wolverine comes down and goes away. And it did then after some time and made a noisy exit by groaning loudly all the way, when it ran to the marsh area, where it had came from. Like protesting how it was disturbed/harassed in so unfriendly way, while it was just minding it´s own business

Overall it´s easy to see, how this man likes wolverines. He describes them as small, tough, agile in trees etc. while clumsy runners and very tenacious animals. And funny to see and observe. They mostly follow bears and wolves to scavenge leftovers from them. So from people point of view, if not reindeer owner, nothing to worry about what comes to wolverines.

Video here, not anything to anyone to understand when he speaks, but at 1:18 nice photo of one wolverine. At 2:18 lynx coming down from the tree and 2:23 wolverine doing the same showing how much more agile it´s when in the tree. Both get up fast, but when coming down, lynx either drops or backs off like it can be seen in the video. Wolverine can basically run up and down the tree like nothing.

And what comes to that encounter in this and earlier posting. Dog was unharmed, not a scratch and also wolverine seemed to be fine too, only pride was hurt.

[brobear]

Come to think about it, I've never found a newspaper article or heard on the news a single reported victim of a wolverine attack.

[Deleted]

Aug 18, 2021 5:38:54 GMT -5 brobear said:

Come to think about it, I've never found a newspaper article or heard on the news a single reported victim of a wolverine attack.

If you mean people, there is no danger to us from wolverines. People are too intimidating for that small predator. Unless cornered, it will go away when people approach.

What comes to bigger predators like bears, wolves and cougars, it´s obvious that they are too big for wolverines. With lone wolf stalemates happen and in some occasions some young wolf can be intimidated, but main rule is, that wolverine flees as fast as it can.

[tom]

Aug 18, 2021 6:30:57 GMT -5 @shadow said:

Aug 18, 2021 5:38:54 GMT -5 brobear said:

Come to think about it, I've never found a newspaper article or heard on the news a single reported victim of a wolverine attack.

With lone wolf stalemates happen and in some occasions some young wolf can be intimidated, but main rule is, that wolverine flees as fast as it can.

Now hold on there Shadow. Lets be careful about making blanket statements like that. There are videos out there of Wolverines standing their ground protecting a carcass from Black Bears and wolves. How common place is that is hard to determine, but they do not simply flee in all cases. 

They can be very tenacious when feeding or when wolves decide to quarrel with them over a kill. They are no match for a pack of Wolves just as they are no match for an adult Bear, but individually they have been know to hold their own against single Wolves.  I think the following video is quite proof that they do not just flee as fast as they can. Please note fight #2 & 3 are likely the same video. Towards the end a Wolverine tangles with a Wolf and gets a hold and bite on the Wolf's snout. The Wolf ends up retreating with a nasty wound. We have no way of knowing the age of this Wolf but it appears to be an adult. 

Oh and please ignore the childish comments about wolves at the end. 

[tom]

Yet another Wolverine who decides to fight than flee and it this case it's the Wolf that retreats. The point I'm trying to make here is that yes fleeing may be he best choice for the Wolverine in some cases, but it's clearly evident by the number of videos out there that he clearly doesn't flee all the time. He can be a menacing and bold individual much like the Honey badger. 

[Deleted]

tom

I write about it, what happens usually, not what fanboys try to make it look like. I know very well what sensationalists have written in past and that video which you linked is heavily edited, so called fanboy production.


In some rare cases wolverines can stand their ground against lone wolf, but they usually flee and this is common knowledge among people who spend time in the woods and also same is told by experts. Also there is plenty of authentic video footage showing it.

So yes, in rare cases some wolverine can fight and sometimes it manages, at best, to intimidate opponent. But in big picture they flee as fast as they can, when meeting lone wolf. Then holding ground against black bear, it´s bluffing when they do so, they have no chance is black bear is hungry. Even though serious fights are rare between so "unfair" pair, one wolverine was found dead after it had tried to challenge black bear on carcass. Overconfidence isn´t a good thing when size difference is too big. But yeah, I´ve seen footage of a crane to charge against black bear in wild and black bear fled, same a goose bullied silverback gorilla in the zoo and gorilla fled to the door of his enclosure and wanted to go in, it was so badly intimidated.

But yeah, there are a few clips in which wolverines have a quarrel with wolf or wolves. But when heavily edited it´s sometimes impossible to know which one is chasing which, like in that video which you now shared. What comes to that one fight with dramatic narrating "wolf is no match for a wolverine" or something like it. It was a good fight and pretty clear stalemate. Again footage doesn´t show too well overall situation and I don´t see any big wounds in it, also wolverine was exhausted in the end, where in fact wolf takes last bite and shook violently the wolverine before it in quite calmly walks away, no hurry or anything like that, just as fed up to fight as wolverine is. Wolverine looks like to watch, while panting, what wolf does and when wolf go away, it goes to eat. They aren´t stupid animals at all and some individuals are tenacious.

But if that wolf would have been hungry and walked to the carcass, I think that wolverine would have taken some distance to wait, that wolf leaves. Looks like a clip from situation in which wolves have killed something and eaten most of it already. In such situations wolves go nearby to digest and after some time waiting wolverine comes there. Maybe this time this wolf saw the wolverine and charged, even though not hungry at the moment. Wolves have that habit to attack wolverine, when they see one. And when that wolverine surprisingly fought, after some fight wolf thought that not worth it now. It alone is a victory for wolverine and impressive. It doesn´t happen too often after all. Wolf had some blood on it´s snout, maybe his own, maybe from wolverine, but I don´t see there anything serious. Both gave some bites to each others, wolf just has stronger jaws.

Those old "documentaries" have sometimes good material, but often already dramatic narration tells, that it´s good to put voice down and focus to things, which can be seen, not how narrator tries to dramatize it to look like. I have became quite critical towards documentaries, especially older ones, when learning more how they have been done. When something haven´t been able to film in wild, they haven´t had no problems in editing material to show things how they have wanted. Luckily in these days there is all the time more and more authentic footage helping to see what happens, when there is no script.

All in all, as I wrote, main rule is, that wolverines flee as fast as they can when they meet bigger predator like a wolf or a bear. I dare to repeat it, because it can be seen in many video clips and also people who have seen these things say the same as do biologists who study wolverines. And as you can see also in the videos of this Turunen, his dog is smaller than average wolf. Those Karelian Bear Dogs are usually 20-30 kg, both males and females.

[Deleted]

tom

That second video was nice, but in it wolverine was cornered, any animal fights in such situation. It had no choice when wolf was making a move. It got also nasty looking bite from wolf, but hopefully not too bad, I hope that fur covered it enough. And it gave back too, enough to make wolf to let it be, respect for it. Looks like a situation in which wolf has chased wolverine to that place or then wolf noticed wolverine there while doing something else and decided to make a move.

I would have made a headline "Wolverine defends itself against attacking wolf" because it´s what I see there. Wolf goes clearly to fight with a wolverine in that hollow. If it wouldn´t, wolverine wouldn´t have made anything.  

So yes, wolverines are tenacious, when choices are taken away like in that second video. But just like the wolf, it too didn´t want to fight more. So yes, cornered animals fight, also wolverine. Same is with honey badgers, when for instance lions spot one, they have no choice but to act as aggressively as they can while trying to get away. I find many headlines kind of funny, when there is written like "honey badger fights with pride of lions" and then in video can be seen how lion cubs have spotted a honey badger and they go to check it and honey badger starts the fight for his life, while lion cubs are just curious and somewhat confused, that "what is this little thing?". In some occasions they have been able to confuse even an adult lion, but still sadly, quite often lions do kill them or maul them and leave then to die. But because from such can´t be made funny "good will headlines", not so popular in youtube etc. I like both a lot and have searched information from both quite a lot to learn what is real and what are entertaining stories.

Honey badgers are often in that unlucky situation when meeting bigger predator, that no safe place near, so only option is to bluff and if no other choice, to fight as long as it can. It works out often quite good and they manage to go away unharmed. But they don´t go to challenge lion prides as some youtube videos try to make it look like Big cats are too much for them if bluff is called or if lion or leopard decides to hunt it down as prey, which luckily doesn´t happen so often. But I give credit to them in it, that sometimes especially with leopards it can take long time before it´s killed. That relatively thick and loose skin at least buys time to it, in some cases even allows it to escape.

[tom]

Ok I am starting to see a common theme here Shadow, whenever I present something or state something that is quite evident (in this case the last two videos) your response is to automatically debunk it with some explanation? 

You stated this: 

but main rule is, that wolverine flees as fast as it can

Then you say this:

I write about it, what happens usually, not what fanboys try to make it look like. I know very well what sensationalists have written in past and that video which you linked is heavily edited, so called fanboy production.


In some rare cases wolverines can stand their ground against lone wolf, but they usually flee and this is common knowledge among people who spend time in the woods and also same is told by experts. Also there is plenty of authentic video footage showing it.

I'm sure there are video footage of a Wolverine fleeing just as there are of them holding there ground and even on the offensive. 

I merely presented clear evidence that this is not necessarily the main rule as clearly seen in both videos so it would seem it's not main rule 100%. You say it's common knowledge, is it?. Is this simply your opinion or is there some documented research paper that your drawing this from. If it's opinion based I wish you would simply say so. If not simply your opinion, I welcome you to present the facts that state otherwise. 


Secondly, whether or not the first video was edited or not it clearly shows several segments of a Wolverine who was not trapped or cornered and clearly shows it on the offensive. The footage that is shown IS NOT fabricated. Yes it is possible it was edited by some wolverine fanboy to remove footage that was not to the Wolverines favor, but the footage that does get shown is real. IN the first video there is clear evidence of a Wolverine who is not appear trapped or cornered and indeed got the better of the Wolf in an all out fight who left with a serious bite wound. 

So please refrain from debunking everything I say unless you can show me something substantial that proves otherwise or simply say IMO (in my opinion). I would much more respect your opinion than how you've been handling it so far. 

[Deleted]

tom

I can show a lot of evidence of course as well as statements from experts. As well as video footage. 

So yes, main rule is, that wolverine flees. It´s not 100% because in there are exceptions. That first video which you shared is heavily edited crap and only in two of those there is possible to make some conclusions. In one wolverine chased wolf and in that fight they fought. But who won that fight or did neither one really is open. You see that wolverine won, I don´t. Wolf was just fine and calm and it might have had a small wound on snout or not, but nothing serious. How badly it bit wolverine can´t be seen because wolverine has thick and dark fur. But wolf bite it and shook it leaving it then panting to the ground when wolf turned and walked away. It can be said that wolf won. I see there pretty much stalemate in which both just had enough. After that last bite from wolf wolverine didn´t do anything to continue fight and then again wolf stopped too.

I am not debunking so much here, I just point out different points of views since material which you have shared isn´t too clear. Sadly fanboys edit videos a lot and either start or end of situation is missing, sometimes both. And when wolverines and wolves run and fight, who is chasing who is a good question.

That second video which you shared is small fraction from an incident, which have lasted longer time. I found more material, but all in small clips giving no clear idea from where situation started and to what it ended. There were actually three wolves and a carcass near and they had a brawl there, even some man was there near and had to run when fighting wolf and wolverine ran towards him. Very odd situation and hopefully something more can be found out from it.

But just a moment, I will post a bit more about wolverines then. Maybe it´s good also because some people actually are afraid of them even though there is no reason for it. They need protection and understanding, not unnecessary fear.

[Deleted]

I post now some sources what comes to wolverines and especially their interactions with wolves and other predators.

First quotes from book by Lassi Rautiainen. wildfinland.org/pdf/fighters.pdf

From page 121, under the photo:

"As a rule wolves will see a wolverine off. However, I have once seen a young wolf back off from an irate young wolverine which was spoiling for a fight. A tree

constitutes an escape route for wolverines in a spot of bother. In the forest the animal can quickly climb up out of reach, but it may meet its fate in open ground."

Then text from pages 121-122:

"I was sitting with my Swedish friend Henrik Ekman in the hide at Viiksimo in the summer of 2006. The area was already well-known

to me. As far back as 1982 I had been involved in bear photography, a passion that had continued throughout the 1990s. But it was not

bears that I was excited about as we sat there patiently waiting for something to happen: some members of the Kivikiekki wolf pack had

occasionally paid a visit to this ‘restaurant’ of ours at Viiksimo, some 30 kilometres north of their regular haunts.


As we watched, a wolverine we named Aurora borealis (Northern lights) discovered our carrion. Its breast was a tapestry of yellow

torches that appeared to dance about as it moved, just like the flickering lights. The obviously hungry wolverine began to tear pieces off a

carcass, even to the point of delving right into the depths of the fare, while forgetting to monitor its environment. Normally a wolverine

will become immediately aware of the arrival of a bear or wolf and will discretely flee.


Behind the feeding wolverine a pale young wolf now emerged. Its curiosity aroused, the animal began to walk towards the wolverine.

I nudged my companion so that he could record on video an encounter between the two which might come as a shock to the feasting

wolverine. I urged him to zoom in on the action for I reckoned that recording the encounter on a single frame with a still camera would

not be terribly exciting. In a motion picture, on the other hand, it would be far easier for viewers to appreciate the coming confrontation.

It was obvious to me that we were about to witness an incredibly rare natural event as it unfolded. Never before had I seen a wolf and

a wolverine within a few metres of each other. When the wolf had advanced to within less than ten metres of the wolverine, the latter

became aware of its presence. Aurora borealis seemed to burst into flames, before abruptly attacking the wolf. Totally unprepared, the

young wolf took to its heels in fear. My friend actually recorded just a short shot in video but on the other hand my still pictures were

once again blurred and amateurish due to the gloomy conditions.


Great was our surprise when Aurora borealis and not the wolf returned to the table! Head

held high, the wolverine seemed to communicate with the two of us, saying “How about

that, then, chaps!”

And more from pages 122-124:

"A couple of years later I had a different kind of experience while at my usual post in Kivikiekki. A solitary wolverine was feeding at

carrion in the middle of a mire. I concluded that neither wolves nor bears were in the vicinity since the wolverine had stepped boldly out

into the open. But I was wrong. A long way away three wolves were sniffing at the wind. They had detected the wolverine’s presence.


Then a dramatic chase as breathtaking as in any world cup match ensued. The wolves soon figured out that a wolverine on an open mire is defenceless and eagerly took off

after it. Having only short legs, the wolverine decided to place an obstacle or two on the course. Water spurted into the air as the animal sped towards a small, dry ‘island’ of

trees in the middle of the bog. For a moment I felt I was witnessing an incredible drama: the wolverine would surely lose the game and the wolves would tear it to pieces.


When it seemed that the poor animal stood no chance of escape, the wolverine gained the ‘island’, where it shot up an old pine tree like a rocket, sending down a flurry of

loose bark. Unable to climb after it, the disappointed wolves milled round the base of the tree. Panting from the chase, the pursuers stayed there a short time, before realising the

futility of hanging around. It was indeed a long time before the wolverine risked descending to the ground, to slip into the forest.


Surrounded by trees, wolverines can easily outwit marauding wolves. They can climb up out of reach, if necessary. Rocks and scree are their favourite sanctuaries, as they

are able to hide away deep down under boulders. Wolves  are unable to squeeze into tight crannies. In such situations wolverine families are safely out of danger.


I was convinced that particular wolverine had learned the lesson that open terrain is bad for the health. Other wolverines have since underscored that fact.
Before the wolves appeared we had photographed wolverines from all our hides, irrespective of the environment. In contrast, in recent years we have observed
wolverines in the forest and only very rarely in open, potentially hazardous country. The wolverine also has a predator’s keen sense of smell, helping it

avoid conflict. It has learned the wolves’ schedule and avoids being out and about at the same time."

Also check out photo in page 125, here is description of that photo:

"In late April some Italian visitors showed me a ghoulish photo of a scalped wolverine. I immediately set off to study the traces of a

conflict: two wolves had surprised a wolverine in the forest. The encounter had taken place 2-3 days previously, so the prints were no

longer clear. Over the summer the right eye, which had been dislodged sideways, moved back into its normal position and the scalp

grew back to cover the entire skull. Miraculously, this hero was still alive several months later."

[Deleted]

Here some sources from North-America so, that not only Finnish sources.

From Alaska Department of Fish and Game ( www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wolverine.main ) :

"Because of their great endurance, strength, and foraging behavior, wolverines have become a center of folklore. However, its fierce reputation has often been exaggerated. They are known to steal furbearers from traps and to damage cabins but contrary to stories will not attack a larger predator, like a wolf or a bear. Instead, they avoid these animals as encounters with either of these predators may be fatal to the wolverine. Wolverines will defend a food source or its territory against other wolverines or smaller predators."


Here a bit more from one official working there ( www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=692 ):

"“They’ve got such a bad rap,” Harrington said. “I've had people ask, ‘will they chase you down? Aren’t they dangerous?’ People wonder if we’re afraid of them.”



“A lot of myths about them are way overblown,” Golden said. “People attribute magic powers to them, but they’re just doing their thing, looking for food. They are curious, smart animals and they figure stuff out pretty quick. They are smart enough to run down a trap line, and that’ll make trappers mad. But it makes sense that they’d do that – there’s always food on these trap lines. They’re not extra aggressive, they avoid trouble.”

"He said a wolverine can defend itself pretty well, but it’s no match for larger predators. “Two wolves can kill one,” he said. “You hear stories about them chasing bears off, I’ve never seen that happen, or known anyone who has.”

Those quotes from this guy:

[Deleted]

Here short quote from Finnish site, official site of Government.

"The wolverine has no natural predators, but it will stay away from wolves."

www.largecarnivores.fi/species/wolverine/wolverine-behaviour-and-reproduction.html

One video from camera trap, in wich lone wolf comes and makes wolverine to back off from food. 




Here another video showing a wolf coming when wolverine is eating:

[Deleted]

I have to share this one, so handsome wolves.

Camera trap footage from Finland, showing the moment when Alpha wolf arrives. It can´t be seen so good in the video, but it´s a big one. It´s paw tracks are bigger than others in that pack have.

[Deleted]

One video with bears and also wolverine is there until bears don´t tolerate it anymore.

First dominant bear comes to eat. After it leaves the place younger bears dare to approach food. Wolverine is quite bold and waits there his turn, but at 6:35 one bear decides, that it´s time for that wolverine to leave.

[Deleted]

A bit from scientific research showing, that there is a reason why wolverines tend to flee when noticing wolf or wolves.

"Not surprisingly, Scrafford’s team found that wolverines spent as little time as possible near busy roads. But, interestingly, they found that wolverines also had a strong tendency to avoid even lightly used roads. This behaviour may be linked to a fear of being exposed to predators while crossing resource roads — particularly wolves, which may use the roads to hunt. This fear might not be unjustified: during his fieldwork, Scrafford found three male wolverines killed by wolves near winter roads."

www.canadiangeographic.ca/article/why-wont-wolverines-cross-road

[Deleted]

This is also a good article to read, sadly one dead wolverine included. But there is a reason why wolverines are afraid of wolves. blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/wolves-and-wolverines-a-complicated-relationship/

"I stood up on my snow machine as we approached, back straightened and muscles tensed. One of our satellite-collared wolverines, a young female named Avalanche, had stopped moving 48 hours ago, long enough to warrant investigation. Now, after a cold, hour-long ride from our base camp, we were greeted by a conspicuous mound of black and brown fur. My heart sank."

"When we arrived at the scene, Avalanche lay on her back, front paws extended, as though frozen mid-bound. A red gash ran across her neck and, transferring her carefully to the back of my snow machine, I could feel that her body was savagely broken. Dense wolf tracks nearby clearly marked her struggle. After five weeks of watching her small red dot move around a map on my computer screen, of visiting the snow dens she slept in, marveling at the caribou she killed, and collecting her scat for analysis, I held back tears."

"Wolves are a common predator of wolverines, but the relationship is more complicated than simply predator-prey. Across their range, wolverines can be seen tentatively approaching days-old wolf kills, crunching bones and tearing at leftover flesh. They are what is considered a “facultative scavenger”—they eat carrion when it’s available but are quite capable of hunting their own prey when it’s not."

"Wolves present a threat to wolverines and the smaller and often more solitary animal must respond accordingly. By placing motion-activated cameras at wolf-killed moose carcasses, a bachelor’s student from Hedmark University College in Norway recently revealed that wolverines are sensitive to the frequency and duration of the wolves’ visits. The wolverines, in fact, moderate their enthusiasm for food (which is legendary, and the root of their Latin name Gulo) in accordance with the risk of being killed.

Much of wolverines’ ability to strike this balance with wolves probably has to do with their sense of timing; get to the carcass after the wolves have left, but before the ravens and foxes have picked it bare."



Avalanche the wolverine at night, captured by a motion-activated camera, in one of the last photographs taken before her death. Credit: Tom Glass WCS

[brobear]

I view the wolverine the same as I view the honey badger as well as the American badger and ( I suppose ) the European badger. These guys are the grandmasters of bluff. Not that they cannot deliver a nasty bite nor that they are not fighters. But, against a larger rival, a wolverine will often attempt to bluff his way. While he is not the super-beast of his hyped reputation, he is a far cry from being a wimp. The physical abilities of a wolverine are extremely impressive. 

[tom]

Aug 18, 2021 14:12:47 GMT -5 @shadow said:

tom
So yes, main rule is, that wolverine flees. It´s not 100% because in there are exceptions. That first video which you shared is heavily edited crap and only in two of those there is possible to make some conclusions. In one wolverine chased wolf and in that fight they fought. But who won that fight or did neither one really is open. You see that wolverine won, I don´t. Wolf was just fine and calm and it might have had a small wound on snout or not, but nothing serious. How badly it bit wolverine can´t be seen because wolverine has thick and dark fur. But wolf bite it and shook it leaving it then panting to the ground when wolf turned and walked away. It can be said that wolf won. I see there pretty much stalemate in which both just had enough. After that last bite from wolf wolverine didn´t do anything to continue fight and then again wolf stopped too.

Ok. I can see this is going nowhere. I wasn't sure what "Main rule" meant. Glad you admit it is not 100%. So we agree that Wolverines will stand their ground on occasion. There are always exceptions with anything in life not just this. Glad we got that settled. 

I am not debunking so much here, I just point out different points of views since material which you have shared isn´t too clear. Sadly fanboys edit videos a lot and either start or end of situation is missing, sometimes both. And when wolverines and wolves run and fight, who is chasing who is a good question.

It's was quite clear to me you are debunking. The Wolf got bit and bit hard and decided he had had enough.. Very clear. What lead up to that or what happened after that does not change the fact that the Wolf got a good taste of a pissed off Wolverine. 

Most of what you posted, I see the word "Wolves" mentioned when talking about Wolverines fleeing. I think I stated if you go back and re-read my posts that Wolverines are no match for Adult Bears or Wolves as in plural... meaning "multiple animals'. They likely are not a match for a single Alpha male or Female Wolf. I will even go so far as to say and I'm speculating that Wolverines have killed no Wolves or very few if any and the few might be young wolves or pups. But the fact remains and the video footage proves it, they will stand and fight if need be whether that is protecting a kill or defending themselves. You can twist what I say any way you want, call the videos I post crap, get it out of your system if you must, means nothing to me. Our conversation does not pertain to Bears. A snarling Wolverine is no fool and even if he thinks he can intimidate a Bear in leaving a carcass initially, he knows fully well he is seriously overmatched and it won't take much persuading from a Bear to change his mind. 

One more thing before I leave this conversation and obviously let you have the last word.

The big difference as I see it here Shadow is I don't attempt to debunk your videos or try to make them out as crap as you say or come up with some counter explanation.  Remember what I stated earlier.

I'm sure there are video footage of a Wolverine fleeing just as there are of them holding their ground and even on the offensive.

But it would seem I am am misinformed. Shame on me. 

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Aug 18, 2021 15:51:03 GMT -5 brobear said:

I view the wolverine the same as I view the honey badger as well as the American badger and ( I suppose ) the European badger. These guys are the grandmasters of bluff. Not that they cannot deliver a nasty bite nor that they are not fighters. But, against a larger rival, a wolverine will often attempt to bluff his way. While he is not the super-beast of his hyped reputation, he is a far cry from being a wimp. The physical abilities of a wolverine are extremely impressive. 

Yes, when they have to, they fight and with lone wolf or young wolves it has a chance to survive, but I have never seen or heard that a wolverine would have injured bigger predator seriously. When talking about credible sources.

What I write and post doesn´t mean that wolverine wouldn´t be a fine animal. It´s reputation then again is something else, as that interview from Alaska showed, that reputation isn´t restricted only to internet forums and some people really think that wolverines would be dangerous to people. It´s quite something when they have never attacked people etc. All is based on misinformation by sensationalists.

And some people even believe, that they would kill bears.... 15 to max 30 kg small predator against a bear.... it´s insane what kind of things people can believe. As videos show, even with wolves they can´t cause anything serious. My point is to bring things down to earth. I´m sure that wolverines have suffered from their bad and unearned reputation. I mean many can think, that such "badass" doesn´t need to be protected or that such boodlust animal should be shot on sight. 

They do kill time to time a lot of reindeer in heavy snow, but when excluding those damages to reindeer owners, they are quite harmless. Naturally they can kill some small animals from yards sometimes, like in this article ( www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000006256855.html ), but still for us people there is nothing to be afraid of.

Article is in Finnish, so I tell briefly what is told. 62 years old woman Mirja Kuosmanen woke up, when she heard scream outside. She thought, that cats were fighting (She had three cats named Juuso, Elmeri and Viiru outside) and turned lights on and went fast out. She saw there an animal, which she recognized immediately as wolverine, with one of her cats in its mouth. Mirja took a shoe and chased wolverine hitting it with the shoe on his ass. Wolverine ran away to the woods. Mirja checked her cats and noticed, that Wolverine had got Juuso. After that she started to keep her cats inside in nights and also keeping lights on outside.

I couldn´t help but smile when I read this article first time. I mean some people think, that wolverines are almost mental fighters and there a 62 years old granny charges with a shoe with no fear But then again, here wolverine doesn´t have any special reputation, when excluding reindeer owners who see it as trash which should be exterminated.