smedz
Ursus abstrusus
Recent Graduate
Posts: 410 
|
Post by smedz on May 4, 2019 19:49:24 GMT -5
For those who don't know, dholes are wild canids live and hunt in packs normally up to 10 or 12 depending on what sources you read but can sometimes be up to 25. They are anywhere from 33-44 pounds. These canids share their range with 3 types of bears, sloth bears, sun bears, and Asiatic Black Bears. My personal belief is that a male black bear can and will displace a pack of dholes from a carcass when it gets the chance, but what do you guys think? post whatever information there is on the interactions between bears and dholes.
|
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on May 4, 2019 20:58:28 GMT -5
I have not seen basically any interactions between bears and dholes. We know grizzly bears totally
dominate wolves in North America so those bears should do ok vs dholes. The Asiatic black bear should displace dholes once in a while. The sun bear should avoid them i would guess. I know dholes attack sloth bears and tigers sometimes. But this is about all i know.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 1:46:58 GMT -5
Even tigers give sloth bears a wide breathe. Therefore, I believe dholes generally leave sloth bears and asiatic black bears alone as well. Sun bears being arboreal are safe from dholes in the tree.
|
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on May 22, 2019 18:37:11 GMT -5
There is barely any info on bear and dhole interactions. And i know this is bear/dholes, but i found a very interesting article of how dholes attack and kill tigers in India. They form a cordon around the tiger and prevent him from hunting until the tiger is very tired and weak. Then they kill the tiger.
www.newspapers.com/image/380448391/?terms=How+wild+dogs+kill+the+tiger
|
|
smedz
Ursus abstrusus
Recent Graduate
Posts: 410
|
Post by smedz on May 22, 2019 19:26:57 GMT -5
There is barely any info on bear and dhole interactions. And i know this is bear/dholes, but i found a very interesting article of how dholes attack and kill tigers in India. They form a cordon around the tiger and prevent him from hunting until the tiger is very tired and weak. Then they kill the tiger.
www.newspapers.com/image/380448391/?terms=How+wild+dogs+kill+the+tiger
What the.......this is weird, I've read dhole tiger accounts before, personally, I've never believed them, but this is a new read, thanks King Kodiak for this! Before anyone asks why I don't believe the accounts, I'll just go ahead and do that. The accounts describe the tiger killing some dholes before being finished off by the rest of the pack, in one instance, a tiger killed 12 out of 22 dholes before being killed, I'll use this pack as an example. This hunting behavior has rewards and costs. The rewards being the elimination of a competitor and a threat to the pups. The costs are the loss of many vital pack members. The effects include them now being less able to hunt big game, now they're more vulnerable to being overpowered by a larger pack, and with fewer adults, now the pups chances of survival are slimmer as now there aren't as many adults to care for them and protect them. This however, is just my opinion, as for bears, I agree, dholes likely leave bears alone mostly. |
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on May 22, 2019 19:31:53 GMT -5
How about this one? Have you seen it? Wild dogs maul healthy tiger and make him run away.
|
|
smedz
Ursus abstrusus
Recent Graduate
Posts: 410
|
Post by smedz on May 22, 2019 19:43:05 GMT -5
How about this one? Have you seen it? Wild dogs maul healthy tiger and make him run away.
Yes, I've seen this one before, but I also read of a more recent account reported by someone in pench where a pack of 18 dholes moved out of a waterhole when they saw a tigress come out of the jungle, they didn't dare attack her for obvious reasons. That makes me convinced a pack of 12 like in this account wouldn't dare attack a male in his prime. I should say that none of these accounts of dholes killing tigers have been verified, hence how people are able to debate about it, modern research has proven that tigers do dominate dholes. One study in Thailand found that dhole populations are lower in spots with tigers, another in Bhutan showed that tigers drive dholes and leopards towards where the crop fields are where they hunt deer and wild pigs. In tadoba park in India, the increasing tiger population has had a negative effect on dholes as the tigers kill them out of competition and cub protection, I did talk to their head naturalist by email. But we're all entitled to our opinions, you have yours, I have mine, likely best to leave it at that, and focus on bears. Agree? |
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on May 22, 2019 19:43:21 GMT -5
As for your theory, yes of course i agree with you, that is usually how it shoud be. But remember that some exceptions could happen. A large dhole pack might decide to attack a tiger or a sloth bear, should be rare, but it looks like it has happened. Yes i agree, focus on bears. I just thought it was interesting to show those reports.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 12, 2020 5:51:15 GMT -5
Is the dhole really the great killer of tigers or are the tales exaggerated?
|
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Oct 12, 2020 9:27:11 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 12, 2020 9:50:27 GMT -5
I agree ( Quote ): "Why would dholes even risk attacking a tiger?"
|
|
smedz
Ursus abstrusus
Recent Graduate
Posts: 410
|
Post by smedz on Oct 19, 2020 19:26:37 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Oct 26, 2020 23:15:38 GMT -5
"Rarely, bears, wild pigs, gaurs, or other large ungulates can mortally wound a tiger"
This phrase above is somewhat true, but you know why? Because tigers run away from all these animals when the ambush fails, that's why.
I agree with dholes only killing or hurting sick or weakened tigers.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 27, 2020 1:53:49 GMT -5
"Rarely, bears, wild pigs, gaurs, or other large ungulates can mortally wound a tiger"
This phrase above is somewhat true, but you know why? Because tigers run away from all these animals when the ambush fails, that's why.
I agree with dholes only killing or hurting sick or weakened tigers. I agree with all said here. The only reason I can think of for a pack of dholes to fight with a tiger would be over a carcass. In this case ( IMO ) a pack of dholes would only fight with a prime male tiger if they see any signs of weakness such as old age ( like me ), sickness, or a crippling injury. Predators can recognize such things even more efficiently that a biologist's observations. Perhaps a pack of dholes could harass a tigress from a carcass. |
|
smedz
Ursus abstrusus
Recent Graduate
Posts: 410
|
Post by smedz on Nov 1, 2020 10:57:08 GMT -5
"Rarely, bears, wild pigs, gaurs, or other large ungulates can mortally wound a tiger"
This phrase above is somewhat true, but you know why? Because tigers run away from all these animals when the ambush fails, that's why.
I agree with dholes only killing or hurting sick or weakened tigers. I agree with all said here. The only reason I can think of for a pack of dholes to fight with a tiger would be over a carcass. In this case ( IMO ) a pack of dholes would only fight with a prime male tiger if they see any signs of weakness such as old age ( like me ), sickness, or a crippling injury. Predators can recognize such things even more efficiently that a biologist's observations. Perhaps a pack of dholes could harass a tigress from a carcass. I think a better question is WOULD a pack of dholes harass a tigress. Just because something could happen does not mean it would happen. |
|
|
|
Post by tom on Nov 1, 2020 15:36:06 GMT -5
I would say they would harass a Tigress provided the pack was large enough. Wild dogs of Africa would be an example of power in numbers, even Hyena clans will bend to a large pack of wild dogs. Their harassment is relentless to the point of exhaustion to whatever they're harassing.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 1, 2020 17:21:11 GMT -5
I would say they would harass a Tigress provided the pack was large enough. Wild dogs of Africa would be an example of power in numbers, even Hyena clans will bend to a large pack of wild dogs. Their harassment is relentless to the point of exhaustion to whatever they're harassing. I agree. When wolves harass a grizzly, its not to actually fight, but rather to become such a nuisance that ( in some cases ) the bear will leave a carcass preferring to find a more peaceful ( more enjoyable ) food source. I would imagine though, that a tigress may be ( perhaps ) a bit more dangerous an object of harassment, considering her speedy sudden attacks. |
|
smedz
Ursus abstrusus
Recent Graduate
Posts: 410
|
Post by smedz on Nov 6, 2020 19:38:02 GMT -5
I would say they would harass a Tigress provided the pack was large enough. Wild dogs of Africa would be an example of power in numbers, even Hyena clans will bend to a large pack of wild dogs. Their harassment is relentless to the point of exhaustion to whatever they're harassing. I agree. When wolves harass a grizzly, its not to actually fight, but rather to become such a nuisance that ( in some cases ) the bear will leave a carcass preferring to find a more peaceful ( more enjoyable ) food source. I would imagine though, that a tigress may be ( perhaps ) a bit more dangerous an object of harassment, considering her speedy sudden attacks. I agree, harrassing is not really fighting, but annoying. I agree a tigress may be more dangerous with her speed, and potentially higher desire to kill a competitor. |
|
smedz
Ursus abstrusus
Recent Graduate
Posts: 410
|
Post by smedz on Dec 20, 2020 20:20:45 GMT -5
|
|
